So I've heard, I just didn't understand the MM initial.

(I almost thought you were mentioning me for a minute, LOL!)

stansfield123 said:

Invader said:

And I think it's a safe assumption that, short of becoming international stars (unlikely, since no Japanese band has ever done it)

BM are already on their way with that, from playing on Stephen Colbert to having their biggest live show outside of Japan in Wembley Arena. Heck, I believe when it comes to which of the 2 have more INTERNATIONAL Appeal/popularity, BM definitely leads over MCZ (especially in the West)! Your more likely to apprach a BM fan than an MCZ fan in the West, but that's mostly because BM sells to countries outside of Japan while MCZ (generally) just sells exclusively to Japan, as well as BM appearing in Western magazines/TV shows/Media/etc.

In the end, the one way to even have a competion for the amount of fans between both groups i to pretty much see it from this perspective: BM fans (Japan/UK/USA/every other country) vs. MCZ fans (Japan).

MM305 said:

BM are already on their way with that, from playing on Stephen Colbert to having their biggest live show outside of Japan in Wembley Arena.

I disagree that any of that means they're on their way to international stardom.

MM305 said:

Heck, I believe when it comes to which of the 2 have more INTERNATIONAL Appeal/popularity, BM definitely leads over MCZ (especially in the West)! Your more likely to apprach a BM fan than an MCZ fan in the West, but that's mostly because BM sells to countries outside of Japan while MCZ (generally) just sells exclusively to Japan, as well as BM appearing in Western magazines/TV shows/Media/etc.

In the end, the one way to even have a competion for the amount of fans between both groups i to pretty much see it from this perspective: BM fans (Japan/UK/USA/every other country) vs. MCZ fans (Japan).

I think you severely overestimate the number of foreign fans Babymetal has. A lot of metal fans know about them, but that doesn't mean they're fans. Most metal fans are snobs, and would never embrace something like Babymetal.

And people who don't care about metal have never heard about, or will ever hear about Babymetal. Why? The answer to that is very obvious: because Babymetal plays metal and hard rock. Metal and hard rock is not popular, and it does not sell in the West.

The notion that international fans will sustain Babymetal is almost as unrealistic as the notion that international fans could sustain Momoclo. They're both primarily Japanese acts, and they both need to rely primarily on the Japanese market for their revenue. International sales are a fraction of Japanese sales...for both acts. Looking at international sales is pointless. They're insignificant. If anything, performing and promoting internationally is costing MCZ and Babymetal more money than they are selling. The only reason Babymetal do it is to gain prestige at home (and I suspect the only reason Stardust sends Momoclo abroad is as a reward/team building vacation).

I looked up the numbers of participants in the russian communities BM and MCZ: more than 12000 BM (about the same 48/46 groups) and only about 600 - MCZ (less than in community MM or Cute)

About the Nikkei rankings, here's some random, rambling thoughts :P

I'm kind of surprised by some of the positions on this ranking. I actually thought μ's would come in higher, because they were in some ways the most successful non-48 idol group last year. They had pretty much the best sales figures of anyone who didn't use handshake gimmicks; not only that, but these didn't even have multiple editions - they were just plain old CDs you'd pick up at the store, so the sales they got off those were seriously impressive. Babymetal I also thought would be higher, because they have so much media momentum right now. In some ways they actually appear more popular than Perfume right now; they even outsold the new Perfume album, which I never dreamed would happen. That leads into the next thing I was going to say - maybe most of all I'm surprised that Perfume is still scoring so highly, and that they even went up. From what I've seen people's enthusiasm for them and Nakata has been dropping quite a lot, seemingly as much as enthusiasm for Momoclo, and in these years where they've topped the ranking I still don't think they have nearly the kind of impact on the scene that AKB48 always does. I find it really hard to believe that they're actually close to 40% more popular than Momoclo or AKB.

My guess as to what might be going on in these rankings is that Perfume is the kind of group that very few people dislike, so they get almost all positive results in the survey - this aggregates into a high overall score. On the other hand, the more clearly idol groups like AKB48 and Momoclo probably have more people who dislike them, so even if they have really enthusiastic fans they might end up getting their scores cut down by negative responses. Same thing with μ's - they have ultra hardcore fans who drive sales and media attention, but maybe the general public is not so keen on Love Live.

Also, with respect to Babymetal, I think they are quite a different case from Momoclo. While a lot of metal fans hate them, they do have enough standing in the metal community that they could probably get by in the international market as a normal touring metal band - lots of metal bands from Europe make enough money to keep running largely by overseas touring (maybe their novelty would wear off after a while though, who knows?). Momoclo on the other hand only has international J-pop fans to support them at best, which are a far smaller crowd than the metal community. Also, while international sales for BM would probably never equal the kind of sales you get from an idol group in Japan, they might not be insignificant either. As an example of metal band sales, the last Anthrax album sold 30,000 or so copies in the US iirc, and that is far from an insignificant number even in Japan. If BM can pull sales like that internationally it would certainly be enough to affect their marketing strategy.

already it's about 90k for each album)

^ Are we on edge or what? Come on, what I have a problem with is when we start comparing with other groups and say misleading stuff. If we talk about BABYMETAL their last album sold more than Momoclo's last album, we mononofu would be the only ones to consider Momoclo's last album sales were 180,000 (and yes, that has been said, here and on other places)

What I don't want is for the Momoclo fans to start picking fights with other fandoms because we feel superior, we are better than that.

We can talk about sales all you want but let's respect other groups sales too, no need to put anyone down. Sales are important but as long as they're not flopping it doesn't matter. I follow groups who sell 7,000 or less and I'm proud of then either way.

Also we have to get mentally ready for sales to keep declining, not just Momoclo but pretty much any idol except some very few cases. So taking it too seriosly will only bring us heartbreak.

Cheer up man we can talk about anything you want, I have no problem with that, I was just saying what I thought.

Sorry if I have spelling mistakes but I'm on mobile and it's harder than usual.

new information about Babymetal's album sales: 133k (in March) + 48k (in April) = more than 180k

and it's still in daily top 10

isn't it a little silly to compare Babymetal and Momoclo? Momoclo is a jpop idol legend in my opinion. Their place is established, but their peak has came and gone. The fact they still seem to be looking to grow and take chances from an artistic and performance point of view says a lot to me.

Babymetal on the other hand is currently a trend. Right now they are popular in many circles, but like countless other trends they easily could fade away in no time. (not saying they will because I am a fan and hope they don't)

iheartmcz said:

isn't it a little silly to compare Babymetal and Momoclo? Momoclo is a jpop idol legend in my opinion. Their place is established, but their peak has came and gone. The fact they still seem to be looking to grow and take chances from an artistic and performance point of view says a lot to me.

Babymetal on the other hand is currently a trend. Right now they are popular in many circles, but like countless other trends they easily could fade away in no time. (not saying they will because I am a fan and hope they don't)

What's funny is that a lot of people everyone that after 2014, the year they started to grow big. Two years later, they are now about to perform at their biggest solo event: Tokyo Dome!

Plus, I think there is something to say about Momoclo that despite not being at that peak anymore, they still seem to be very big when it comes to sales/popularity compare to most other idol groups.