General Discussion
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Revan said:
^Really ? Did he Quit ? or is it because his previous artist (before MCZ) got exiled from entertainment industry ?, and yes he is a big shot thanks to MCZ thats why i want him to more focus on MCZ than his personal Ambition
I have no idea if he quit or not. But I do know that his focus is his personal ambition...on account that all of our focus is our personal ambition. Kinda the definition of personal ambition.
Don't make him a bad person though. He likes Momoclo, and Momoclo seems to like him back.
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lol Off course not, i'm not making him a bad person, i'm actualy reallly like him and loved MCZ, thats why i don't want him to make more mistake, yes we all have our personal ambition, but what i mean is don't make his personal ambition in front of his ambition with MCZ, if it's posible make it side by side if not make MCZ priority over his personal ambition :) cause just like you say by the time MCZ is not around he definitely already get big in entertainment industry and got foundation for himself, that is automaticaly if MCZ moving out(split out) in good term with entertaiment industry
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Whatever their reasoning, I certainly don't think NHK dropped Momoclo because they're out of touch with popular culture - it is quite possibly the opposite. As I said before, the whole thing is that they are drastically cutting down the number of idols in Kohaku, and this is most likely because they have their finger on the pulse of pop culture and think that idols are not as much the "in" thing anymore. This is the main reason Momoclo got dropped, imo - there is just not enough room on the roster after including the AKB franchise plus Love Live and Nogi, the two big success stories of the year. And there is no way they would have dropped AKB before Momoclo - like them or not, they are the "national idols", and have a profound effect on idol culture in a way that no one else really does.
Honestly, I'm kind of surprised that even Perfume made it back in, as they haven't had a whole lot of momentum lately. I definitely wouldn't consider them a sure thing for next year's Kohaku if the current trend continues. -
cinnamonpie said:
Whatever their reasoning, I certainly don't think NHK dropped Momoclo because they're out of touch with popular culture - it is quite possibly the opposite. As I said before, the whole thing is that they are drastically cutting down the number of idols in Kohaku, and this is most likely because they have their finger on the pulse of pop culture and think that idols are not as much the "in" thing anymore.
Ok, so you're saying "idols" are getting excluded, because "idols" in general are not "in".
Define "idols' then. What puts Ariyasu Momoka in the same category as AKB?
In the past year, she didn't do gravure (she never did gravure), she didn't sell CDs at handshake events...pretty much all she did is sing, and go on TV from time to time. So why is she more of an "idol" than any other pop performer at Kouhaku? Why is she being lumped in with girls who sell their sexuality as entertainment?
She clearly doesn't do that. Momoclo in general clearly don't do that. (By the way, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that...but Momoclo clearly don't belong in that category).
I think that the producers of Kouhaku are putting Momoclo in the same genre as AKB, and that definitely makes them confused about pop culture. Not because there's something wrong with gravure, but because gravure is very different from what Momoclo does. AKB sell sex to young and middle aged males. Momoclo sell music and energetic live performances to a wide audience. How is that the same category of entertainment?
Or, if you don't agree with my definition of idols, feel free to share your own. Why should the fact that typical idol groups are becoming less popular affect MCZ (who aren't a typical idol group, they're a pop group who started out as idols but are working on becoming different). -
Personally, I consider idols to be pretty much any choreographed singing group whose artistic vision is primarily decided by their agency/management. The people I consider idols also tend to be marketed largely in channels other than their music, for example appearing on variety shows or having their own dramas or anime (or gravure in some cases). So I consider a lot of different groups to be idols (or at least close enough to compete in that area) - Perfume, Babymetal, E-Girls, and Momoclo would all count to me, alongside your "traditional" groups like AKB and Morning Musume with the handshakes, regular graduations, gravure photobooks and all that. I would guess that NHK figures there's enough of an overlapping market between all those different types of groups that they aren't going to bother dividing them up more finely; they're looking more at divisions like "enka singers or bands" vs. "idol-ish groups".
Plus, Momoclo proudly call themselves idols. You can't argue with the label when they give it to themselves :P -
The whole "what's an idol?" can take us through another couple pages of discussion :)) it always ends up being more of a philosophical debate.
However, the general consensus is more about how idols don't control what they do, don't write songs and focus a lot on variety. Being an idol in essence has nothing to do with gravure, a lot of idols don't do gravure and are still idols, but it's true also a lot of them do.
Then we arrive to the people who to me are clearly idols but try to position themselves as different. The example is E-Girls, I don't think just because they're supposed to be better dancers and they don't have a love ban they should stop being considered idols. It's just a marketing strategy to try to get away from the stigma the word "idol" has.
To me Momoclo is the definition of idols even if they don't do gravure, they are a bunch of kids put together by an agency who pretty much can't sing (except Momoka, they're better now, but pretty much anyone who's not into them will tell you they are painful to hear) and focus on energetic performances and making people happy.
Nowadays the idol world have a ton of groups doing interesting things musically, it's not just Momoclo so I don't think they should be put on another basket over everyone else. -
Good post
And I agree that it's almost impossible nowadays to give a clear definition of what's an idol. I think it's whether you call yourself (and market yourself as such) an idol defines it. Thanks to BiS :)
stansfield123 said:Revan said:lets just track back to the begining .... KWKM out of Job(Jobless Manager)
My best guess is that he's a "jobless manager" because he quit. I wouldn't want to be Momoclo's manager either. Sounds like a nightmare job: you have to work 80 hrs/week, and you even have to be ready to answer calls when you're sleeping.
So that "jobless manager" thing doesn't mean anything. He's still a bigshot at Stardust, and (judging by the fact that he's ...somewhat unfortunately...in control of Momoclo's social media), 100% in charge of MCZ, which is one of their biggest assets.
Ummm are you two talking about the same thing?
I think Revan is referring to the Erika Sawajiri scandal and its aftermath while stansfield is talking about the Section 3 restructuring
Btw Sawajiri was a Stardust artist, so kwkm was merely given another assignment after his protegee "imploded"
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I question NHK's ability to judge popular culture. When I came in 2011, K-pop was booming and there were a few K-pop artists on Kouhaku. Fast-forward to 2012 and after, and not a single K-pop artist even though they were still topping charts for awhile. The K-pop boom has died down a lot since then. Granted, this is Japan where K-pop is the exception, not the standard, but what seemed to be popular had no impact. Add the fact that K-pop artists were pretty much removed from almost all TV programming and there's little wonder why popularity has died down.
Sorry if it seems off-topic, but it's kind of the same boat as Momoclo not being invited. -
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Flowercreek said:
https://twitter.com/taikibaseball04/status/671273539039719424
It's haaaaaaappening!!!
I've listened to those precious seconds of new music way too many times, and I'm not stopping anytime soon. -
Flowercreek said:
https://twitter.com/taikibaseball04/status/671273539039719424
It's haaaaaaappening!!!
Is this tied to some anime? That brief bit reminded me of Nana Mizuki and I love her so if this preview is any indication I'm going to love the song.
Edit: I thought we were the ones crashing the forum because the preview was revealed :))
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Invader said:Flowercreek said:
https://twitter.com/taikibaseball04/status/671273539039719424
It's haaaaaaappening!!!
Is this tied to some anime?
God please no. What the girls need now is a MCZ single that is not a tie-in to Anime-Movies-Gene Simmons wallet. Its been ages (since Birth 0 Birth) that they put something without external gimmicks
Cant say what i tough of this yet.. will need to hear it another 100 times
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honkey5 said:Invader said:Flowercreek said:
https://twitter.com/taikibaseball04/status/671273539039719424
It's haaaaaaappening!!!
Is this tied to some anime?
God please no. What the girls need now is a MCZ single that is not a tie-in to Anime-Movies-Gene Simmons wallet. Its been ages (since Birth 0 Birth) that they put something without external gimmicks
Cant say what i tough of this yet.. will need to hear it another 100 times
I agree, as far as I know the albums aren't linked to anything and I hope it stays that way. The snippet sounds like anisong so It made me question if it was for something. -
Flowercreek said:
https://twitter.com/taikibaseball04/status/671273539039719424
It's haaaaaaappening!!!
IT'S SO BEAUTIFUL kinda reminds me of Fate/Stay for some reason 0.0 -
FYI: The last of the missing kwkm LoGirl episodes (#26 from October 13)
with 3Bjr Yuzuki Kurimoto
http://momoiroclover.net/discussion/comment/23797#Comment_23797 -
I don't think anything new on the albums will be tied to animes. I do expect Moon Pride, and definitely Z no Chikai (since it's been used in both album trailers) to be on there though.
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Logic would dictate that. Neither "Z densetsu" nor "D´No junjou" on BAR were used for other things but the album promotion. Same with "Neostargate" and "Birth 0 Birth" on 5 Dimension
As far as the prereleased singles i think "Gounn" and "Naitemo.." are mandatory to say they will be there too. Same "Seishun Fu"
I have no clue with the KISS collab since the music is KISS´ propriety
It would be awesome if they recorded some of the covers they have been playing lately like INVOKE or Shojo Ningyo. But i wouldnt want to have them in detretiment of new music -
I actually did think it sounded a lot like an anisong.... If it is, I apologize greatly.... O-O;;;;
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I wouldn't be surprised if at least one song featured on the album would be a tie-in. Dragon Ball Super (the new TV series) changes their ending theme song every 13 episodes or so, and since Momoclo now has ties to the series, it is possible that a new song will be produced to tie in to the series. If so, I'm all for it, my bias for DB-related material transcends anything else, but I digress lol.
In any case, for something like that to happen, they're cutting it quite close to announce and release. If not this coming month or early January, then I don't think any new single such as that will surface. After, maybe. But it will have nothing to do with the albums.
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